Honing for Beginners

Honing for Beginners

Postby panthera » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:51 pm

Anyone with experience honing on the forum, what do you recommend in terms of technique?

Lynn Abrams' popular circle or pyramid methods? Or does something else work for you?

Do you tape the spine of your razor?

Any experience of setting a bevel on a 4k stone?

If I know anything from sharpening knives, honing is as much about 'feel' as rigid technique but it would be good to hear the thoughts of those more experienced.
panthera
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 am

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby RiverValleyTrading » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:14 pm

panthera wrote:Anyone with experience honing on the forum, what do you recommend in terms of technique?

Lynn Abrams' popular circle or pyramid methods? Or does something else work for you?

Do you tape the spine of your razor?

Any experience of setting a bevel on a 4k stone?

If I know anything from sharpening knives, honing is as much about 'feel' as rigid technique but it would be good to hear the thoughts of those more experienced.


I haven't honed any razors, but here's a great video from Anthony Esposito (the stallion :D ) showing how he hones a Gold Dollar 300 razor from start to finish (600 grit bevel all the way up to 20K finish). Makes it look easy, but it does take some practice.
This is how my Grandfather shaved
This is how my Father shaved
This is how I shave.


http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/306126/RiverValleyTrading
User avatar
RiverValleyTrading
Commercial Vendor
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:36 am
Location: Durban

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby panthera » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:36 pm

RiverValleyTrading wrote:
panthera wrote:Anyone with experience honing on the forum, what do you recommend in terms of technique?

Lynn Abrams' popular circle or pyramid methods? Or does something else work for you?

Do you tape the spine of your razor?

Any experience of setting a bevel on a 4k stone?

If I know anything from sharpening knives, honing is as much about 'feel' as rigid technique but it would be good to hear the thoughts of those more experienced.


I haven't honed any razors, but here's a great video from Anthony Esposito (the stallion :D ) showing how he hones a Gold Dollar 300 razor from start to finish (600 grit bevel all the way up to 20K finish). Makes it look easy, but it does take some practice.


Great video, thanks!! Man, Anthony makes it look so easy. Definitely a different and simpler approach from what I've seen before.
panthera
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 am

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby Thug » Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:43 pm

Thanks for the link RVT.

Both my SR's have been honed by ShavehavenSA but I need to start learning how to do it myself.

I'm going to purchase a Shapton 12k finishing stone that will allow me to refresh the blade and then work my way down to a Norton 4k/8k combo.
Support Movember by clicking on this link: https://mobro.co/tonyhuglin?mc=1
User avatar
Thug
 
Posts: 4095
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:09 pm
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby panthera » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:47 pm

Also a video I found worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq4bB7oTCLc

Done by gssixgun if any of you recognise that forum name. Stropping skill at the end :shock: .
panthera
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 am

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby panthera » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:51 pm

Thug wrote:Thanks for the link RVT.

Both my SR's have been honed by ShavehavenSA but I need to start learning how to do it myself.

I'm going to purchase a Shapton 12k finishing stone that will allow me to refresh the blade and then work my way down to a Norton 4k/8k combo.


Very nice! I have a 4k/8k combo, but as I'm not exactly sure what 'sharp' feels like with a straight the journey will be an interesting one. I guess it will just be when it feels comfortable to shave with.

Will worry about a finishing stone when I feel comfortable getting a serviceable edge off the 8k, but I do have a homemade balsa CrOx strop.
panthera
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 am

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby ShaveHavenSA » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:20 am

I feel that you make your own technique using the advice and info you get from YouTube video's. X-pattern works good if you have a smaller thin stone or if you can get a broader 2.5" plus stone to make no pattern.

My advice:
First use the Oxide side of your strop and go over to finishing stone when this does not work anymore.
You only need one finishing stone 8K and up if you rarely use your straight. This stone will freshen up your edge and keep you going for a long time.
You can get and extra one 4K +/- if you use razor allot or need to do some light bevel setting.
You can get a third 1K+/- if you need to remove minor chips or for harder/ faster bevels setting.

Always remember this:
Keep the blade flat on the stone, do not press too hard rather let the weight of the razor do the job. Also do not put more pressure on front or back as this will change bevel. You do this if you need to change the bevel.
There is a difference between a wedge and a hollow grind blade.
Putting tape on the spine changes the angle of the bevel. (it might only be a fraction but in blade terms this can make the difference between shaving or not shaving)
Don't think that you will only buy a stone or two. You need to get a flattening stone as well. Once your water stone makes a hollow and you don't plane / flatten it, it will do more harm than good.

Good stones are very expensive and must be maintained so it can give you a lifetime of service.
User avatar
ShaveHavenSA
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:24 pm
Location: Pretoria

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby ShaveHavenSA » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:30 am

panthera wrote:
Thug wrote:Thanks for the link RVT.

Both my SR's have been honed by ShavehavenSA but I need to start learning how to do it myself.

I'm going to purchase a Shapton 12k finishing stone that will allow me to refresh the blade and then work my way down to a Norton 4k/8k combo.


Very nice! I have a 4k/8k combo, but as I'm not exactly sure what 'sharp' feels like with a straight the journey will be an interesting one. I guess it will just be when it feels comfortable to shave with.

Will worry about a finishing stone when I feel comfortable getting a serviceable edge off the 8k, but I do have a homemade balsa CrOx strop.


Your're fine with the Norton. Decent stones with a good reputation. You will rarely use the 4K side. Use the 8K to freshen up and move on to Chromium Oxide strop and then leather. Use the 4K when you've done 50 laps on 8K and nothing happens, (Maybe even try 100 laps first)
I test a razor on an arm hair: I look for one that stands up straight and then horizontally move the blade (cutting) in the middle of the hair. If the hair slides over the edge and does not cut then more work lies ahead. The hair should hook on the edge and snip off. If this happens then away you go, go cut something.
User avatar
ShaveHavenSA
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:24 pm
Location: Pretoria

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby RiverValleyTrading » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:51 am

ShaveHavenSA wrote:
panthera wrote:
Thug wrote:Thanks for the link RVT.

Both my SR's have been honed by ShavehavenSA but I need to start learning how to do it myself.

I'm going to purchase a Shapton 12k finishing stone that will allow me to refresh the blade and then work my way down to a Norton 4k/8k combo.


Very nice! I have a 4k/8k combo, but as I'm not exactly sure what 'sharp' feels like with a straight the journey will be an interesting one. I guess it will just be when it feels comfortable to shave with.

Will worry about a finishing stone when I feel comfortable getting a serviceable edge off the 8k, but I do have a homemade balsa CrOx strop.


Your're fine with the Norton. Decent stones with a good reputation. You will rarely use the 4K side. Use the 8K to freshen up and move on to Chromium Oxide strop and then leather. Use the 4K when you've done 50 laps on 8K and nothing happens, (Maybe even try 100 laps first)
I test a razor on an arm hair: I look for one that stands up straight and then horizontally move the blade (cutting) in the middle of the hair. If the hair slides over the edge and does not cut then more work lies ahead. The hair should hook on the edge and snip off. If this happens then away you go, go cut something.


Thanks for the info. :thumbup:
This is how my Grandfather shaved
This is how my Father shaved
This is how I shave.


http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/306126/RiverValleyTrading
User avatar
RiverValleyTrading
Commercial Vendor
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:36 am
Location: Durban

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby Thug » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:31 pm

Ideally if one is serious about honing your razors and restoring, you'd need the following:

1k - Bevel Setting
3 or 4k - Intermediate
8k - Secondary intermediate
12 or 16k - Finishing
325 Diamond Plate

Naniwa Superstones with a Chosera 1k are probably the most common synthetic and widely used stones until you get into the naturals.

If you don't have a 1k stone you'll still be able to set a bevel on a 1000 grit wet & dry and you don't really need the diamond plate as you'd be able to lap the stones on 320 grit wet & dry.

Many have successfully only used the Norton 8k as a finisher, so again, depending on your pocket, you only really need to buy the Norton 4/8k combo (unless you can get hold of the Naniwa 3/8k)
Support Movember by clicking on this link: https://mobro.co/tonyhuglin?mc=1
User avatar
Thug
 
Posts: 4095
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:09 pm
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby RiverValleyTrading » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:09 am

Another great honing video from Anthony 'The Stallion' Esposito.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiY8bXMxveM
This is how my Grandfather shaved
This is how my Father shaved
This is how I shave.


http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/306126/RiverValleyTrading
User avatar
RiverValleyTrading
Commercial Vendor
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:36 am
Location: Durban

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby panthera » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:10 am

ShaveHavenSA wrote:I feel that you make your own technique using the advice and info you get from YouTube video's. X-pattern works good if you have a smaller thin stone or if you can get a broader 2.5" plus stone to make no pattern.

My advice:
First use the Oxide side of your strop and go over to finishing stone when this does not work anymore.
You only need one finishing stone 8K and up if you rarely use your straight. This stone will freshen up your edge and keep you going for a long time.
You can get and extra one 4K +/- if you use razor allot or need to do some light bevel setting.
You can get a third 1K+/- if you need to remove minor chips or for harder/ faster bevels setting.

Always remember this:
Keep the blade flat on the stone, do not press too hard rather let the weight of the razor do the job. Also do not put more pressure on front or back as this will change bevel. You do this if you need to change the bevel.
There is a difference between a wedge and a hollow grind blade.
Putting tape on the spine changes the angle of the bevel. (it might only be a fraction but in blade terms this can make the difference between shaving or not shaving)
Don't think that you will only buy a stone or two. You need to get a flattening stone as well. Once your water stone makes a hollow and you don't plane / flatten it, it will do more harm than good.

Good stones are very expensive and must be maintained so it can give you a lifetime of service.


Thanks very much for the info ShaveHaven, some great tips here. I have been lapping my hones with 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a granite kitchen counter.

ShaveHavenSA wrote:
panthera wrote:
Thug wrote:Thanks for the link RVT.

Both my SR's have been honed by ShavehavenSA but I need to start learning how to do it myself.

I'm going to purchase a Shapton 12k finishing stone that will allow me to refresh the blade and then work my way down to a Norton 4k/8k combo.


Very nice! I have a 4k/8k combo, but as I'm not exactly sure what 'sharp' feels like with a straight the journey will be an interesting one. I guess it will just be when it feels comfortable to shave with.

Will worry about a finishing stone when I feel comfortable getting a serviceable edge off the 8k, but I do have a homemade balsa CrOx strop.


Your're fine with the Norton. Decent stones with a good reputation. You will rarely use the 4K side. Use the 8K to freshen up and move on to Chromium Oxide strop and then leather. Use the 4K when you've done 50 laps on 8K and nothing happens, (Maybe even try 100 laps first)
I test a razor on an arm hair: I look for one that stands up straight and then horizontally move the blade (cutting) in the middle of the hair. If the hair slides over the edge and does not cut then more work lies ahead. The hair should hook on the edge and snip off. If this happens then away you go, go cut something.


Another good tip- thanks! Will try this.
panthera
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 am

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby ShaveHavenSA » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:28 pm

Thanks very much for the info ShaveHaven, some great tips here. I have been lapping my hones with 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a granite kitchen counter.


The way you lap your stones works great.
Before i had lapping stones I used the back side of a floor tile (a fairly decent one that's well manufactured) The ridges on the tile helps with the water and grit removal.
User avatar
ShaveHavenSA
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:24 pm
Location: Pretoria

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby panthera » Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:09 pm

I don't want to speak too soon but I think I may have succeeded...!! Had a free half day today and spent a considerable amount of it dedicated to all things honing related..

Used a mixture of ShaveHaven's advice and a few bits I picked up from the net. I ended up having to use the 4k (after a long while on the 8 without results) as I think the bevel was set for having tape on the spine. Spent maybe too too much time on the 4k- I was waiting for it to pop arm hairs as I heard that was a good indication of a set bevel. It never did that off the 4k but it passed the 'Thumb Nail Test' so I moved to the 8k and THEN it started to pop hairs nicely. I'm assuming the 8k wouldn't have done anything if the bevel wasn't set correctly?

From the 8k I did 10 or so careful laps with the CrOx strop and then maybe 60-70 laps on a leather strop. The razor is now the sharpest I have ever had it!! Pops arm hairs effortlessly halfway up the hair.

Weird, but you feel a real sense of achievement when this goes right. Definitely addictive!
panthera
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 am

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby RiverValleyTrading » Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:26 pm

panthera wrote:I don't want to speak too soon but I think I may have succeeded...!! Had a free half day today and spent a considerable amount of it dedicated to all things honing related..

Used a mixture of ShaveHaven's advice and a few bits I picked up from the net. I ended up having to use the 4k (after a long while on the 8 without results) as I think the bevel was set for having tape on the spine. Spent maybe too too much time on the 4k- I was waiting for it to pop arm hairs as I heard that was a good indication of a set bevel. It never did that off the 4k but it passed the 'Thumb Nail Test' so I moved to the 8k and THEN it started to pop hairs nicely. I'm assuming the 8k wouldn't have done anything if the bevel wasn't set correctly?

From the 8k I did 10 or so careful laps with the CrOx strop and then maybe 60-70 laps on a leather strop. The razor is now the sharpest I have ever had it!! Pops arm hairs effortlessly halfway up the hair.

Weird, but you feel a real sense of achievement when this goes right. Definitely addictive!


Well done Panthera. Great job. :thumbup: You should lather up on your arm and try shaving with it before taking it to your face. (Just be wary of the big bald patches on your arms afterwards. :lol: )
This is how my Grandfather shaved
This is how my Father shaved
This is how I shave.


http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/306126/RiverValleyTrading
User avatar
RiverValleyTrading
Commercial Vendor
 
Posts: 9576
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:36 am
Location: Durban

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby panthera » Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:32 pm

RiverValleyTrading wrote:
panthera wrote:I don't want to speak too soon but I think I may have succeeded...!! Had a free half day today and spent a considerable amount of it dedicated to all things honing related..

Used a mixture of ShaveHaven's advice and a few bits I picked up from the net. I ended up having to use the 4k (after a long while on the 8 without results) as I think the bevel was set for having tape on the spine. Spent maybe too too much time on the 4k- I was waiting for it to pop arm hairs as I heard that was a good indication of a set bevel. It never did that off the 4k but it passed the 'Thumb Nail Test' so I moved to the 8k and THEN it started to pop hairs nicely. I'm assuming the 8k wouldn't have done anything if the bevel wasn't set correctly?

From the 8k I did 10 or so careful laps with the CrOx strop and then maybe 60-70 laps on a leather strop. The razor is now the sharpest I have ever had it!! Pops arm hairs effortlessly halfway up the hair.

Weird, but you feel a real sense of achievement when this goes right. Definitely addictive!


Well done Panthera. Great job. :thumbup: You should lather up on your arm and try shaving with it before taking it to your face. (Just be wary of the big bald patches on your arms afterwards. :lol: )


Thanks RVT :thumbup: . Still hasn't passed the shave test but will give it a go tonight!

My arm is full of bald patches as it is, got to test that the whole blade pops hair :roll: .
panthera
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 am

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby ShaveHavenSA » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:08 pm

panthera wrote:I don't want to speak too soon but I think I may have succeeded...!! Had a free half day today and spent a considerable amount of it dedicated to all things honing related..

Used a mixture of ShaveHaven's advice and a few bits I picked up from the net. I ended up having to use the 4k (after a long while on the 8 without results) as I think the bevel was set for having tape on the spine. Spent maybe too too much time on the 4k- I was waiting for it to pop arm hairs as I heard that was a good indication of a set bevel. It never did that off the 4k but it passed the 'Thumb Nail Test' so I moved to the 8k and THEN it started to pop hairs nicely. I'm assuming the 8k wouldn't have done anything if the bevel wasn't set correctly?

From the 8k I did 10 or so careful laps with the CrOx strop and then maybe 60-70 laps on a leather strop. The razor is now the sharpest I have ever had it!! Pops arm hairs effortlessly halfway up the hair.

Weird, but you feel a real sense of achievement when this goes right. Definitely addictive!


Excellent.
The 8K would set a bevel but after an impractical 2 million zillion passes.
The lower grits won't pop the hair as the edge is still uneven and not really sharp yet (just shaped). You need to work upward to remove the "burr" that forms from the thinning of the steel. A burr is like a layer of bent / rolled thin metal right on the end of the edge.
You did all the rest correct.
You also right about spending too much time on a stone. Rather check at regular intervals so you don't grind too much off the blade.
I only use taping on a blade of there's lots of wear and it needs a new bevel or if its a collectors piece that wont be used or if there's designs on the side of the spine.
Well done panthera
User avatar
ShaveHavenSA
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:24 pm
Location: Pretoria

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby panthera » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:25 pm

ShaveHavenSA wrote:
panthera wrote:I don't want to speak too soon but I think I may have succeeded...!! Had a free half day today and spent a considerable amount of it dedicated to all things honing related..

Used a mixture of ShaveHaven's advice and a few bits I picked up from the net. I ended up having to use the 4k (after a long while on the 8 without results) as I think the bevel was set for having tape on the spine. Spent maybe too too much time on the 4k- I was waiting for it to pop arm hairs as I heard that was a good indication of a set bevel. It never did that off the 4k but it passed the 'Thumb Nail Test' so I moved to the 8k and THEN it started to pop hairs nicely. I'm assuming the 8k wouldn't have done anything if the bevel wasn't set correctly?

From the 8k I did 10 or so careful laps with the CrOx strop and then maybe 60-70 laps on a leather strop. The razor is now the sharpest I have ever had it!! Pops arm hairs effortlessly halfway up the hair.

Weird, but you feel a real sense of achievement when this goes right. Definitely addictive!


Excellent.
The 8K would set a bevel but after an impractical 2 million zillion passes.
The lower grits won't pop the hair as the edge is still uneven and not really sharp yet (just shaped). You need to work upward to remove the "burr" that forms from the thinning of the steel. A burr is like a layer of bent / rolled thin metal right on the end of the edge.
You did all the rest correct.
You also right about spending too much time on a stone. Rather check at regular intervals so you don't grind too much off the blade.
I only use taping on a blade of there's lots of wear and it needs a new bevel or if its a collectors piece that wont be used or if there's designs on the side of the spine.
Well done panthera


Thanks very much! Can definitely see the benefit of a 1k or lower grit stone for bevel setting, just to save time if anything else.

Really excited for this evening's shave..
panthera
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 am

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby Thug » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:30 pm

Well done Panthera.

I may have missed it somewhere but what stone did you get? The Norton 4/8k?
Support Movember by clicking on this link: https://mobro.co/tonyhuglin?mc=1
User avatar
Thug
 
Posts: 4095
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:09 pm
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby panthera » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:36 pm

Thug wrote:Well done Panthera.

I may have missed it somewhere but what stone did you get? The Norton 4/8k?


Yep the Norton 4k/8k off of BoB. Great bit of kit.

One tip for anyone purchasing them, I found the 4k side quite 'gritty' and quite a lot had to be lapped off before it felt usable.
panthera
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:18 am

Next

Return to Single Edged Razor Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest