Honing for Beginners

Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby JHBBlade » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:37 am

Hi Thug,
I have the Norton 200/1k combo and the 4k/8k combo. I also have the 1k,3k,5k,8k,12k Naniwa Stones.
For lapping I have a square of laminated glass and 80 grit, 200 grit etc wet and dry sandpaper. I have a cheap diamond plate that came with the Norton's that has a rough and fine grit.

My experience is that unless you are working over the sink, the 200,1k,and 4k Nortons are a PITA as they are very thirsty stones and you end up with water everywhere. I now use the Nortons only for my Kitchen knives mostly using only the 1k and 4k. The Norton 8k is quite a nice stone it has a really nice feel to it but I've only used it to Polish the best of my kitchen knives when I felt like taking the edge to the limit.

The Naniwas are very nice stones as they are not thirsty. You can use them at your kitchen table with a minimum of mess. I just use a spray bottle to keep them moist. I see Lynn Brown only uses a 1k,5k,8k,12k progression. If there is a downside to the Naniwas it is that they build up swarf in the grit, so to put the final strokes on an edge using the 12k I first clean the stone. But the drag and cut on the Naniwas feels good once a bit of metal is laid down.

Also the Naniwa's take much longer to go convex than the Nortons, which is a good thing for me.

With a slurry doing heavy metal removal on the Nortons I also build a micro convex edge that then has to be removed, I've not had this happen on the Naniwas to the same extent, as they don't build such heavy slurries.

For me the 12k Naniwa is the one stone I could not live without. It successfully refines an edge in a way that I can't yet achieve with any other method.
Something I've recently noticed is that the surface is less aggressive and very smooth when I clean the 12k using the 8k. Previously using an 800 grit sand paper or the diamond plate the surface was rougher and more aggressive.

On Shaptons I have no opinion except that some reviewers don't see much of a difference between a 16k Shapton and the 12k Naniwa. 30k Shapton or Gokumyo 20k looks interesting, but I need to hone more and save more before it becomes an option.

I would try the following. Buy a 100X microscope. Hone till you remove the thin edge of light reflecting from the bevel using the Shapton 12k. (i think this should be possible) You've will be finishing with a steady trickle of water holding the stone in your hand under the tap with light strokes. If that does not work for you give the 12k Naniwa a look before you look to a higher grit.

You can also use metal Polish on denim (not Brasso, I tried that and it did not work for me) something like a paste used to Polish stainless steel. Or you can use CrOxide on leather. I only do 3 to 4 laps on denim. I've no experience with Cr. Oxide but it should smooth the edge in a similar fashion.

My current opinion, and it may change, is that I think the stropping improves an edge if I was coming off an 8k Naniwa, but I find it does little to improve a good finish that created on a 12k Naniwa.

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Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby JHBBlade » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:39 am

This is the microscope I use. Took a bit of practice to figure out how to use it, but now I can't live without it.

Image

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Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby JHBBlade » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:40 am

Bought mine via BOB, iirc, without the high ship cost.

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Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby Thug » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:26 pm

Thanks for the info JHBBlade.

I have a Carson Micromax but it is a real pita to use. I'm thinking of getting one of those USB microscopes.

I've now got 3 razors to touch up which I'll take to the 12k during the week.


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Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby JHBBlade » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:50 am

Yes. The tiny Carson drove me nuts until I figured out a bit of a method to use it. Now I find it really easy to use, it granted it took a bit of time, also it took some time to realise that by angling the blade front to back K and also the microscope left to right I could see different things.

I'm also thinking a USB microscope would be nice.

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Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby JHBBlade » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:23 pm

Thug,
Your thinking on a Zulu grey reminded me of a hair-brained plan that I had a while ago ..............
From what I can understand the Zulugrey is a slow cutting fine slate...... So....
Next time I'm at Tile Africa or somewhere similar I'm going to look for some natural South African slate tiles...... That I'll take home, cut to size with water and babygrinder with a tile blade, then flatten on Waterpaper on glass....... and see if I can make myself a much cheaper finishing stone.

Zulugrey had a special on his stones a while back that I missed out on.


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Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby Thug » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:25 pm

JHBBlade wrote:Thug,
Your thinking on a Zulu grey reminded me of a hair-brained plan that I had a while ago ..............
From what I can understand the Zulugrey is a slow cutting fine slate...... So....
Next time I'm at Tile Africa or somewhere similar I'm going to look for some natural South African slate tiles...... That I'll take home, cut to size with water and babygrinder with a tile blade, then flatten on Waterpaper on glass....... and see if I can make myself a much cheaper finishing stone.

Zulugrey had a special on his stones a while back that I missed out on.


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That's a good idea and I don't suppose that it would be a to expensive experiment if it didn't work out.

I'm thinking of getting myself a small Shoubudani JNat with a couple of nagura and they would still land cheaper than a ZG.
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Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby RiverValleyTrading » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:32 pm

Amazing video of a rusty old japanese knife restored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XW-XdDe6j0


Anthony 'The Stallion' Esposito rescently said in a video that if you were to offer him the best razor, or the best honing stone - he would take the stone. Simply because he is of the opnion that with the best stone, any razor could be made to perform like the best. Interesting.
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Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby deepsouth » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:50 pm

I would agree, but can I also get the skill to use the stone? Using the razor is the easy part in my opinion. Honing is more than a skill, it's an art.

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Re: Honing for Beginners

Postby RiverValleyTrading » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:38 pm

deepsouth wrote:I would agree, but can I also get the skill to use the stone? Using the razor is the easy part in my opinion. Honing is more than a skill, it's an art.

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I'm with you on that one deepSouth. Howerver, I believe, like all new skills, practice will eventually pay off.
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